Back To Top

Textiles Spun into Otherworldly Portals, with Tammy Kanat

Textiles Spun into Otherworldly Portals, with Tammy Kanat

Tammy Kanat plays with color and imagination as she weaves magical portals through textiles. Spontaneous by nature, this jewelry designer turned textile artist is a testament to following the evolution of your dreams. By embracing her unique weaving style and celebrating the imperfection of loose threads, Tammy’s work has hung in prestigious galleries, such as the National Gallery of Victoria. Listen to this episode to hear why Tammy gives the green light to cuddling her pieces. Visit for full transcripts of this episode and links to things mentioned.

Read the episode transcript below.

Tammy Kanat plays with color and imagination as she weaves magical portals through textiles. Spontaneous by nature, this jewelry designer turned textile artist is a testament to following the evolution of your dreams.


Michelle Khouri  0:01  
What does it look like when an artist invites you into their spirit through a portal of their own making? Today on The Cultured Podcast we learn exactly what that looks like from textile artist and one of my new favorite people, Tammy Kanat. Welcome to The Cultured Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Khouri. And together we’ll journey into the unknown reaches of the art world. My babies! Tammy Kanat is absolutely, hands down, one of the most uplifting, beautiful spirits I’ve had the absolute pleasure of talking to on The Cultured Podcast and we were able to really explore her story as an artist, as a maker, as a mother, as a wife, as a Sagittarius, because y’all know I had to ask for her zodiac sign, okay? You will understand why when you hear this conversation and you get a peek into the way Tammy thinks. And Tammy really is the inspiration behind the inspiration this week, which is improvisation. Tammy and I talked a lot about how she hates planning. And in fact, it’s just not the way her mind works, to plan. And I, on the other hand, am a planner, although I can improvise quite a bit. In fact, I know you’re gonna be shocked, but every single week, these intros, they’re improvised. They’re not scripted. I know that this is shocking. But really, truly, improvisation, there’s something really special about it because it takes trust. It takes courage. It takes confidence. We all have critical voices internally and externally and it is easy to succumb to the fear of what happens. If I just let myself fly off the cuff, just create without parameters, without a plan, without process. That makes me nervous even just saying that right now like, but also, there’s something really magical. There is a very special energy that you channel when you allow yourself to just experience whatever’s flowing through you and put it out into the world in whatever form, whatever your form is. Whether it’s speaking, whether it’s painting, whether it’s sculpting, whether it’s just having day to day conversations with people, a client call, whatever it is, there is something really special about the energy of somebody who knows how to carry themselves through confidence, through trust. Anyway, that is what is inspiring me. And so this week, in honor of Tammy Kanat, I will be improvising most of the things that I do, unless there’s a specific plan that I’d already set into motion, you know that I can’t like break plan, right? That’d be crazy. Maybe I’ll get a little crazy this week. Okay? Without further ado, my babies, I cannot wait for you to get to know Tammy and her incredible art form. Here we go. Let’s talk to Tammy Kanat.

Welcome to Cultured, Tammy. 

Tammy Kanat  3:30  
I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

Michelle Khouri  3:34  
It’s so great to have you Tammy. This is one of those that we are in our bedrooms right now. We’re in the middle of COVID lockdowns. You know, you’re in Australia, in Melbourne, correct?

Tammy Kanat  3:45  
Yeah, that’s right. In Melbourne, Victoria.

Michelle Khouri  3:48  
You’re in Melbourne. I’m in Atlanta. You’re joining me for dinner and I’m joining you for breakfast. We’re time traveling for this interview. That’s a big deal. And why don’t you just tell us, all of our listeners, who you are and what your art form is?

Tammy Kanat  4:06  
For a long time, I was a jewelry designer. And I had a jewelry business in Melbourne called Mink, which was something I was self-taught and grew a nice sized business. And after about 12 years, I just fell out of love with it. And then in about 2013, I decided to create an art piece in my home and went to the wool shop and started exploring weaving and fell in love with it and became a tapestry artist.

Michelle Khouri  4:36  
As one does. (laughter) And not just a regular old tapestry artists, although I don’t know that that exists all tapestry art and textile art is incredible to me. Your pieces have a very particular look to them. How do you describe what your art looks like? 

Tammy Kanat  4:55  
It’s interesting, because, I often, like, I will often spend a bit of time with a piece before it leaves home to go to someone’s new home. And yeah, I always like to have a little bit of time with them once they come places.

Michelle Khouri  5:08  
That’s amazing. And what do you — do you just like rest it on a wall or something? You hang it?

Tammy Kanat  5:14  
Well, I actually have a particular wall in my bedroom. So I put it up on there for I don’t know, a couple, you know, for a little while and just sit with it. And I always think my work is very intuitive, but it’s really about. I feel that they’re are portals. When I’m creating them, they take me to another world. And then when I feel like I stare at them, they’re portals that I just want to almost go within. There’s a safety within them. It’s a journey.

Michelle Khouri  5:42  
Tammy, I was literally was going to say to you that they look like portals to me, like, literally. First of all, we are in your bedroom right now, ish. So which wall is it? Is it the one you showed me where there’s a piece hanging? 

Tammy Kanat  5:57  
It is.

Michelle Khouri  5:58  
Yes! I’ve seen the wall, I’ve seen the wall. Well, I mean, right now there’s a piece hanging there and it’s simply stunning, certainly captivated my attention the second that I turned on video and there it was hanging above your head, you know? And that is exactly what they look like to me. I mean, they have a very organic look, almost like a geode and like slicing through rock and just seeing these stunning formations or even tree rings. But they look like they’re from another galaxy, if they were going to be geodes or tree rings. And so it does kind of look like you could just put your hand right through that middle and come out of a wormhole into another space and time. And that’s really powerful to hear that you feel that way about them and that you spend time with them because of that feeling. This is no simple task to be doing jewelry for 12 years and then move over to what I consider when I look at your work to be very complex textile art. I mean it is so tactile. It is so active, if we can call it that because you know it like comes to life when you look at it. So you know, I know that that was a hard transition for you. Will you tell us a little bit about what that was like going from 12 years of practicing one art form and what made you sort of veer into a whole other category?

Tammy Kanat  7:23  
Whatever I have kind of creatively explored, I’ve always fallen into it. I’ve never started with an intention. It’s really just come from my personal need. So with the jewelry, I just had my two children and I think I had one on the way and the two girls were like 13 months apart. So it was a crazy chaotic time. I used to walk with them in the pram and then I came across a beautiful shop that sold semi-precious stones and I thought I need to make myself a pair of earrings, even though I wasn’t going anywhere. I just really wanted to design myself some earrings. And from that, people saw them and they’re like, “Oh I love them. Can you make me some?” And so that’s how my jewelry business grew. I’ve always had a thing for color. I just love playing with color. It fascinates me. And in gemstones and fiber, it’s beautiful colors, and the sky’s the limit. And so there’s definitely a crossover thread. I can use that word between the two.

Michelle Khouri  8:23  
So good. I like a punny moment.

Tammy Kanat  8:26  
Yeah, exactly. I couldn’t help but really use them. And that’s a very clear thread. And so with the jewelry, that evolved, and it grew, and it grew. And it came to a point where for me, I lost the creative spirit and it became about a business. And at that time, I wasn’t really sure whether it was a creativity I was passionate about it was growing a business. And I think, what became clear to me that it’s the creativity that makes my heart sing. It’s not the business. You know, the business is beautiful, but it started to lose soul. And I suddenly realized that the passion wasn’t there and it was about the numbers. It was about wholesaling. It was volumes. I started producing overseas. And I literally fell out of love. It was like my heart felt empty. So I had to pull away from that and sit uncomfortably for a year or so. It was really uncomfortable because a lot of people associated me with my jewelry business and it was really who identified with, “Oh, you’re the jeweler.” And to let that go felt like part of me failed, but part of me knew that it just wasn’t making my heart sing anymore and I wasn’t doing what it was all about. 

Michelle Khouri  9:44  
Totally. And you know what? Our identities and how we identify are such a strong part of this, like, ego that we all have and carry with us. And it can feel like ripping part of your skin off, almost, when you’re trying to like, part with an identity that has fueled you, and that has made you feel comfortable in different ways.

Tammy Kanat  10:07  

I think it’s always interesting. You know, everybody else can say, “This is great. What you’re doing is fantastic. Wow, wow wow.” And I think it’s actually being true to yourself. And I mean, I think a turning point for me was, you know, when people used to come into the jewelry place, and we would design beautiful pieces for them, it became because I had to pay rent and pay staff. It didn’t become about, “This looks beautiful on you,” it became about “I need you to buy this so I can pay rent,” and that is just such a different mentality. And I think it made my designs, my jewelry and what I was doing, not shine like it should. I think the biggest lesson I took out of that is that it is okay to walk away from something and have some uncomfortable space. In fact, it’s important to.

Michelle Khouri  10:54  
Oh my god, it’s so important. You know what I love about your story, and you mentioned this already at the beginning, was you are not a planner. You fall into things. You follow how things feel. And you then give yourself to those things. That is very much the story behind how you got into textile art, which was basically from what I read that you wanted a piece for your home. You were redecorating. So you’re like, well, I guess I’ll just make it and that was how long ago?

Tammy Kanat  11:23  
Seven or eight years ago, I did that. And it feels like it was yesterday. It is just gone so quickly. Once I started the weaving process, it’s addictive. It really is. It’s just seven days a week, very rarely, unless I’m exhausted, will I have the day off. But it’s not, it’s not work. It’s like meditation. It’s pleasure for me. It’s curiosity. 

Michelle Khouri  11:46  
What does it feel like? Because I’m fascinated by your process. It is completely intuitive, which in other words, it’s completely unplanned. What is the process of beginning a new piece look like for you?

Tammy Kanat  12:00  
That’s really interesting question. I don’t think there is a lot of process. You know, there’s two areas. One is if I’m working on a commission, I always think the people who get the best work is they just let me be free. People who try and control it too much, it just doesn’t really work because I think that you miss out on the spontaneity of the work. So if it’s a commission, I’m a little bit more, I have to focus on if it’s obviously a certain size or color, which the colors will never be the same because I never know what I’ve done. So there’s no way I could ever repeat a piece. And there’s so many threads things mixed in, which is a nice thing. So someone might say I like that piece, but they’ll get something totally different. I often say to my husband who helps me so much with my work and I keep repeating to him and I keep forgetting that I’ve repeated it I say, “For some reason, I’m just curious to make the next piece even more beautiful and even better than the last one.” Like, that is just my motto with everything. Every piece I make, I just want it to be more special than the one before. That’s the commission part. Then there’s the other part, which is when I experiment, and, just I call it playing. And that is just who knows what. It just literally starts with, I’ll pull a couple of spools of wool off the shelf. And I just begin. And there’s just so many times during the process where I’m like, “Is this working? Is this working?” And I just trust. Trust something will happen.

Michelle Khouri  13:26  
Are you good at the trusting part?

Tammy Kanat  13:28  
Am I good at the trusting part? Look, I think the more success I’ve had with it, the better I am. But yeah, I am good at the trusting part because I don’t have a choice. I have to trust because I can’t plan. I actually cannot plan if I plan. I will dof something totally different. So planning is a waste of time, so I have to trust.

Michelle Khouri  13:51  
Obviously, I’m a planner if you can’t tell. But I’m wondering at the beginning of discovering this new art form and getting acquainted with the materials and the process and the physicality of it because you know, it’s a whole new physicality that you’re working with, with this art form than with jewelry making. Were you as easy to trust or were you sort of having to conquer a constant voice in your head that’s, like, “You’re doing this wrong.”

Tammy Kanat  14:18  
Once I sort of realized that I’d fallen in love with tapestry weaving, I went and did a couple of workshops at the Australian Tapestry Weaving Workshop. And I took myself right up to the master class. So I learned traditional tapestry weaving. And for me, that perfection of counting and having everything in the right spot was incredibly challenging. Like, I don’t trust myself to do that. I trust myself more to go off the beaten track. I feel more comfortable off the beaten track. And if you’re going on new territory, you can’t get it wrong. Because there’s nothing right if it’s new.

Michelle Khouri  15:00  
Ooh, Tammy, you may have just changed my life. I’ll let you know. What’s your zodiac sign?

Tammy Kanat  15:10  
I’m a Sagittarius? 

Michelle Khouri  15:12  
Are you? Oh my God, Saggy. 

Tammy Kanat  15:15  

Michelle Khouri  15:15  
Um, but that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. So you like improvising and you talk about wanting to make the next piece more special than the last and I’m wondering what makes a piece special in your eyes?

Tammy Kanat  15:28  
I always come back to color. If the colors sing, if the colors they’re really talking to each other, I think that can make a piece special. I think also, it’s when I have pushed myself to do something different and I get these almost butterflies in my stomach, like this is interesting. And this is going in new territory. I think they’re the things that make a piece special. I always think of my work, I think of it sometimes as a novel. So when you start reading a book, you know, you start the first chapter. Where’s this going? Where’s this going? What’s happening? In the middle, it might get a bit, “Ah this is not so exciting.” Then by the end, you’re like, “Wow,” and it starts pumping up. But that’s how I feel with my work. I’ve had times where, you know, I’ve felt maybe I need to get a darkness or shadow out of me. So I will end up not consciously making a darker piece, you know, with I made one with black and blues, which is very rare because I generally do uplifting pieces. But once I created that pace, it was like it was out of me and I could move on from that. It’s a diary that comes in then creating an environment and I get to go in the porthole.

Michelle Khouri  16:37  
Yeah, I mean, that’s pretty dope. Also, what I was about to say is like, it sounds like it’s a portal into your emotions and experiences that are actually fairly universal, which is potentially why they’re so gripping for so many of us who love your work. So talk to us about the materials that you use. Tell us about just the materials.

Tammy Kanat  16:59  
I just want to say just on what you just said, was so beautiful, and I really appreciate it. And that’s part of what keeps me going, like when I hear, you know, people send me beautiful messages. And if I can bring that and make people feel that, well, I feel just so grateful and blessed that I can share that and others can enjoy it. So thank you, I really appreciate that. 

Michelle Khouri  17:20  
Absolutely. Thank you for putting yourself out into the world in that way, giving us portals to you.

Tammy Kanat  17:26  
So in terms of the materials I use, I’ve explored with different materials but where I’m at at the moment, I’m working a lot with beautiful tapestry wool. This wool that I’m working with is repurposed wool. So it’s from a textile factory and they create lots of fabrics for trains and different materials for big commercial projects. And they have extra walls so they’re very generous. They send me there’s absolutely magnificent colors of boxes via leftovers, so I get to repurpose it. At other times I have worked with rope, and I’ve worked with hessian and I’ve worked with silk and linen. So I work with lots of different materials but I think at the moment my heart is with the very fine wool that I can really experiment with the colors. And you know one thing I love with the wool depending on how thick you make it, or what colors you put in and you knot it, and I love all the loose threads. The loose threads, the imperfection, is just such a relief. I feel like we try and hold on so tight to everything and just letting those imperfections and loose threads go is really fun.

Michelle Khouri  18:36  
Oh yes, it is. It’s my favorite part. I love it. I honestly I have to just tell you like okay, yes, we’ve gotten deep but I also like want to bury my face in some of your tapestries because they are so, like, plush. I just want to like BAH!

Tammy Kanat  18:55  
You know, it’s really interesting because I totally agree with you and often people ask me can I  touch it. And I do not have a problem with it. And I remember. I really don’t. 

Michelle Khouri  19:06  
You just opened a Pandora’s box for the next time I see, anytime I see an exhibition, I’m gonna be like she said it’s okay.

Tammy Kanat  19:12  
I’m happy with it. I, in the bottom of my heart, I think that is part of the experience. I had an interesting thing happened because I mean, I was very fortunate. I had four works that were commissioned and purchased by the National Gallery of Victoria, which was a huge honor. And I was very proud. And the guys came to pick it up with these white gloves, you know, like these beautiful white gloves. And I got the giggles because I was like, okay. Like when I think what I do with it, I cut it and I’m throwing it around and I’m stepping on it. And here with the white gloves and carefully taking it out. And then when I started the exhibition that had, you know, the gallery had these lines that you couldn’t touch it. And anyway, so for me, I think that there’s nothing precious in that way. That’s part of the story. You’re allowed to cuddle it. If you see it, I’ll be happy if you give them a cuddle.

Michelle Khouri  20:03  
When you’re working on your pieces, is that like a sacred space where your family just like can’t interfere, can’t interrupt or what’s the environment like when you’re doing your work?

Tammy Kanat  20:12  
It’s very chaotic. Everyone is walking in and out. And more to the point I torture them and I say, “Oh, is this working? Do these colors work?” I drive them crazy. I actually do but they’ve got really, they’ve got a great sense of color and I really respect their fresh eyes. So no, I’m not a precious artists. I mean, occasionally my husband will walk in he’ll say, “I think you should do this.” And I’m like, “Don’t say anything. Please do not say anything.” But you know, I love the input, and I really respect my family’s opinions.

Michelle Khouri  20:46  
You’ve just started recently experimenting with textile and seating. I saw a stool that you made. So will you tell me a little bit about some of the thoughts going through your head and creative ideas that are starting to flourish?

Tammy Kanat  21:00  
Yeah, that is a very, very new. That’s hot off the press, that little baby.

Michelle Khouri  21:05  
And it’s such a fun little baby, I have a thing about seating and I saw that and I was like, “How is she going to do that to me? Like how she gonna put out a stool like that, like, how is she going to do that?”

Tammy Kanat  21:15  
Well, it’s interesting, I think if you actually saw, it’s, um, it’s not possible decision at this point. it’s probably more, you could try. It’s like a sort of a sculpture. 

Michelle Khouri  21:26  
That makes sense.

Tammy Kanat  21:27  
But I think it definitely has potential to be a stool. It would probably need a little bit more engineering. But I think the idea again, that was just playing and just curiosity and I feel that it’s interesting to take the work into an even more three dimensional aspect. I mean, I always try and focus on you know, I’d love to move a little bit more into sculpture and art. And so that’s why I have had a little play with that and I’ve had a great response and I feel that um, I mean those works, actually. I’m looking at putting on the walls. So they will be actually three dimensional pieces on the walls. I think what’s really important, like people get comfortable with what I do, and I want to keep trying to bring new things to myself and also the others to enjoy.

Michelle Khouri  22:14  
And how do you find the inspiration for creating those new things? Where do you find the inspiration?

Tammy Kanat  22:20  
Where do I find it? I have a busy mind. I don’t I look at things differently. I’ve always, you know, from a very young age, I kind of use language uniquely. You know, I always struggled in English, because I think my mind doesn’t work, kind of, straight up and down. I kind of look at things from back to front, if that makes sense. 

Michelle Khouri  22:41  
Yeah, you’re like Willy Wonka’s elevator.

Tammy Kanat  22:46  
Exactly. Not as significnat, but that kind of potential mind.

Michelle Khouri  22:54  

So you want to play a little bit more with sculptural works, which is really interesting. Tell me a little bit about what’s going through your head about what you want to experiment with sculpturally? 

Tammy Kanat  23:04  
I think so much of what I do is just intuitive. So I can’t really articulate what the process is and where it’s going. I call them aha moments. I just had an aha moment with doing the sculptures. And hopefully I have some more aha moments, but I will keep pushing that particular thing and see what happens with it.

Michelle Khouri  23:24  
You know, you’ve mentioned a few things that make me feel like the physicality, the actual physical movement and the motion of making your work plays a big role in your joy and the meditative factors. You know, is the physical actions that you have to take, those movements, does that actually, you know, is that something that fuels you?

Tammy Kanat  23:48  
Absolutely. I love it. I love it. I mean, I think that’s also why I often work on large pieces because I love the movement. You know, when I first started weaving, I was working very fine, small pieces but I’ve really discovered that those big pieces, they are physical. I think they’re mentally stimulating and physically stimulating.

Michelle Khouri  24:09  
Your physicality but also your physicality intertwined, no pun intended, with the physicality of the wool and stretching it because even now you just talked about bending it, you know, and seeing like how far you can take it. And I feel like there’s a bit of a dance that happens between you and the textile.

Tammy Kanat  24:27  
Absolutely. I think there is definitely a dance. There’s a rhythm. A hundred percent. Yeah. And I think that’s why it’s, you have to just let go, let it move and let it flow. 

Michelle Khouri  24:39  
Yeah. How long, on average, does it take you to complete a piece? 

Tammy Kanat  24:44  
It’s so interesting. People often will ask me this question. I will have quite a few pieces going at one time, but I lose track of time because I’m in the zone. I have no idea. I mean, I always say, one day I should just say how long a piece takes, but that would be planning and I don’t do that.

Michelle Khouri  25:00  
I love it. You’re like fully anti-planning?

Tammy Kanat  25:03  
Well, you know, I don’t know if this is too full-on but planning makes me feel anxious. Planning to me equals anxiety. Absolutely. Because it creates a pressure if you plan if you go you know. I laugh…I’ll bring a shopping list to the supermarket. Do you think I’d buy anything on that shopping list? Definitely not. (laughter) 

Michelle Khouri  25:22  
Oh my god, that’s amazing. No, if I bring a shopping list, I am buying everything on that shopping list. And I’m making sure I make a tick mark next to everything. You know, as somebody who is, hmm is made a bit uncomfortable by chaos, I also see the beauty in it. Like, I really appreciate it. So, first of all, how many pieces usually do you have going at one time?

Tammy Kanat  25:47  
You know, maybe two to three. I always have to have something on the loom. Like if something isn’t walked up and ready to go, I just feel uncomfortable. I don’t think I could go to sleep. So I always have to have my next piece ready so I like to jump from one to the next, or back and forth. You know, it’s interesting because I suppose in a way though, it’s almost like controlled chaos. I always finish the pieces. I’m very efficient, but it’s still kind of efficient and chaotic. Something I wanted to mention, which I listened to it recently, a book called The Artist’s Way. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it, by Julia Cameron. And I was actually listening to an interview with her and she talks a lot about, I think she calls its, Nigel and Lauren. I can’t remember the two names. Or Lawrence? And you know that those two things in your brain. Nigel is going “This isn’t good enough. You can’t do this. Stop it. It’s pathetic. And the other person, Laurel, or whatever his name is going, “No, this is good. Keep going. Come on. You’ve got this.” I made my own versions called Nigella and Lauren. And I often really notice myself doing that. Like, I give myself a really hard time. And then I try and find the Lauren in me that’s like, “Hey, keep going.” 

Michelle Khouri  26:58  
And I was going to ask if you have multiple pieces running at once so that if Nigella pops up and says, “This is crap,” you move on to the next piece. And maybe for the next piece Lauren’s like, “No, it’s fine. This one’s great.”

Tammy Kanat  27:12  
Yes, absolutely. You’re right. That’s a hundred percent. And there’s one other thing I wanted to mention, which I don’t know if this is useful for your listeners, but something I wanted to share with you, was when I was very young, gosh, maybe eight or something like that, I used to sit by the fire. And I used to do latch hook, make pillows with latch hook. And that’s like a woolen. Like you kind of get this little latch hook thing and you pull the wool through these little squares. And and I never really noticed that. I never really thought about it. But I remember just having: I feel good doing this. And since I’ve picked up the tapestry, I sort of said to my mom a few times, “Wow, it was there. It was there from such a young age. And I never saw it.” 

Michelle Khouri  28:02  

Tammy Kanat  28:02  
And I think that’s really interesting. I’m so glad I found it now, but I think, yeah, those little seeds are there from a young age,

Michelle Khouri  28:09  
We really do change so little in our lives. I think there are parts of us that evolve quite a bit. But I also think that there is this fundamental part of us, or several parts of us, which is what I find so mysterious about human personality is that I certainly popped out of the womb, sort of, me. And despite a lot of people trying to change me, I’ve just like, I don’t know, this is the only thing I know how to be. And I find that fascinating. And I also think that that’s an important thing you just said, Tammy, because it shows that there are a lot of things we dismiss as folly or frivolous and could actually be something that feed us and fulfill us throughout our lives. So thank goodness, you came back to that. That eight year old self who knew what felt good, and who knew that there was a portal waiting to be created in her life? 

Tammy Kanat  29:06  
It’s a good thing. 

Michelle Khouri  29:08  
Tammy, this has been so, so lovely. And just get this portal into your spirit, into your process, into your family, into your bedroom. It’s been really, really special. And before we sign off, why don’t you give us, as the Cultured Crew, where we can find you? Where can we go online to find out more about you and your work?

Tammy Kanat  29:30  
Well, I have a website, And also, as you know, most of my work is on Instagram. They’re probably which is my handles tammykanat. They’re the best places to find me and yeah.

Michelle Khouri  29:46  
Perfect. So those links, as always, will also be a where you can also get a full transcript of this episode. Tammy, thank you again so much for sharing your time and your spirit with us.

Tammy Kanat  30:00  
Thank you for having me. It has been such a pleasure and I have just loved talking with you. Really special. Thank you

Michelle Khouri  30:11 
Well, there you have it my babies. I hope you feel as soothed in your spirit as I do after that conversation. That was just the lullaby I needed to have sweet sweet dreams of textile portals taking me into beautiful gemstone lands. And with that, you know what to do. Keep it classy. Keep it curious. Keep it Cultured. Visit for show notes and subscription links. The Cultured Podcast is a production of my podcast production company FRQNCY Media. I’m the host, Michelle Khouri. Enna Garkusha is our fabulous producer. Becca Godwin is our wonderful associate producer. And we’re recording in Atlanta, Georgia.